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Gypzi
Joined: Jul 3, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-05 05:53:13 |
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Hello again. To your answer about whether there is any possibility of resolvation of relationships between one person acting out and the acting in: Well I am not sure, but I can tell you about the teacher from a personalitycource, which I joined: She told, that she suffered from an emotional instable disorder (Borderline: (acting in, insecure) whereas he was a typically narcissist. She explained that it took 20 years of counselling fore her, but she managed to make her relationship work. She got inside her own disorder but also her husbands. She also managed to make him aware of his emotional patterns by constantly confronting and exposing him, when he was abusing her emotionally, which is the typically way for a narcissist to get along. She also told, that it is vital, that at the same time as you are confronting, one also has to let them now, that they are loved. I my self are searching high and low for ways to recover, but to be honest I don’t think one can recover from this kind of disorder because Believe that it has become part of ones character. What I do believe though, is that it is possible to learn to deal with ones defencemechanism`s and to some extent even overcome part of it. What is vital, I think is getting a better self-esteem and by that I don’t mean self-esteem in terms of what you are good at, but about the true inner feeling of being OK, no matter whether you are good of anything or not. (Hope you get my meaning). Learning how to cope with the anxiety of being rejected and abandoned is in my opinion also of most vital importance. Basically one has to learn to stand by one self, but it is dead hard. If I were you (which I `m not) I would start up researching more knowledge about personality disorders, narcisstic wounds and so on. Having done so it may be possible for you to know when your own mechanisms are activated. You wonder what makes your former boyfriend cheat join several relationships at one time ? (I don’t know what else to call him). Some are afraid or even unable to commit themselves deeper in any relationships because they have learned that the consequences of such can be fatal. At the same time suffer from great anxiety of disappearing, which makes them join several relationships, but at a more shallow level. You see as a true narcissist one kind of live in the dark (emotionally) and therefore one is addicted to getting enlightened by others (ex having the admiration from a girl). One is also terrified of being left alone. A narcissst has also learned that he must manipulate others in order to get attention. The natural way of getting attention apparently has not been an option for her/him. Playing his silent game and frequently being distant is exactly his kind of manipulating in order to get people long and sigh for him. It may seam vicious, but this is the only way he knows. I believe that there is much more to say in this matter, but I have to go make some Paella. I have a friend coming for dinner. Please tell me if you get my meaning because I find it very difficult to write also being in English as it is. |
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Unanswered Thread: VRIELLIS PLEASE READ posted by Synapse 13 days ago |
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MissM
Joined: Aug 31, '09
Status: New User |
2009-09-05 15:11:41 |
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Gypzi, I do get your meaning perfectly. If only my danish were as good as your english! It's funny that you should mention 'living in the dark'. He and I had a conversation about this a long time ago, before we even went on a date. He was steering our conversation towards sexual matters, and while I am far from being a prude, I told him I could never have cold, removed sex - there always had to be feeling. And I told him I would never force my feelings and my private life underground to be stifled by the dark. I had the feeling then that he had gone through a series of unattached, meaningless sexual relationships - living his sex life in the dark. I told him in a roundabout way that I would not be one of them. Sadly though, I fell for him and that is the problem. I know I have huge abandonment and separation anxiety issues that I need to deal with. But the fact is I fell for the part of him that is warm and funny and disarming. Is this the fake him? Did I fall for an illusion. I myself don't form romantic relationships often or very easily. If anything, I almost avoid them and truly believe that I am 'chosing carefully' when I really do let someone in. I feel very isolated. At work, my colleagues talk about their loved ones, their weekends together etc and I feel like some alien who just can't be like them. I almost want to ask how they survive arguments and disagreements without it meaning they are rejected or cast out. Does that make sense? Because I have been thinking about him and all of this quite a lot, tonight I accidentally sent him a text meant for someone else. I immediately sent him another saying 'b*gger that wasn't meant for you - the perils of texting and driving. It's L, how are you?'. I wasn't emotional, just normal and open. I have no idea if he will reply. I felt so bad at first for breaking the silence, like I had 'caved in' and weakened. But somehow I almost feel better in myself. The silence itself has been killing me. If he continues the silence, then so be it. Who knows, maybe after this I will accept the finality of his actions. Do you really believe narcissists use the silent treatment to punish, or do they simply discard people when they are no longer a source of narcissistic supply? The morning I left his place, after we had talked for almost 2 hours about the messages I had found in my phone, he had tried to be very tender and affectionate. He told me how beautiful he thought I was and how he knew I just didn't know it myself. Somewhere in between saying things like this and me leaving his sight, his attitude towards me turned 180 degrees. I hope you and your friend had a great paella night. Thank you again for helping me to understand and to make sense of this. |
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Gypzi
Joined: Jul 3, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-06 11:26:40 |
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It seams as you and I are the only participans at this forum for the moment. Please feal free to share your point of view. And then to you, Miss M At first I want to say how sorry I feel for your pain. I can read it througout the whole letter. If he is a true narcissist which I obviously don`t know), having several shallow relationships with other woman may very well be a realistic assumption. You see it is said that a NPD in relationships still feals this emptiness even during the sexual act. Even thoug he is nurtured by the admiration and the fact that he is able to establish the relationship. If one is to believe the statemens from established theories that other people are only tools in the hands of a narcicist which also confirms your suspission. Don`t think this is not hard for me to write, beeing that true narcissist as I truely believe I am.( I don`t know if you have read what I have written about my self.) There is one thing in your letter that puzzles me: You write about how you felt that you in some way felt bonded because you both had been suffering from great losses in your lives. It is said though that narcissists are unable to greave, so I wonder whether he really is a NPD guy. (He might be faking this sorrow). I like to comment on your thoughts about this silent/distant game, that he is playing with you. In my point of view you don`t have to put up with this . (the game is part of his manipulation). Whether you have broken the silence or not makes no difference. What is important is that you set to put your mind strait to what yo feal. You can be honest and tell him what you feel and what you think (your fears an on). You might not get the responce that you hoped for but then again you wouldn`t have got it anyway. If he is a narcissist he certainly woun`t get better if people play along with his games. And you woun`t get better eighther (at least only for a short while). So you have to stand by your self, Aknowledge how you feel and be realistic about the prospects of the relationships. If you get the chance to speek to him again tell him what you want and what you certainly dont want (ex. this silence/distance game). You can tell him how you feel and what kind of relationship you want (including honesty and so on)and state to him that if he can provide that, you are in. You have to take the risk, that he rejects you and you will get very hard time and grow into a bad depression from abandomness (just as you did in your early childhood). But at the very moment your are suffering great pain too beeing hurt by his games. This sorrow of abandomness is terrible, I know, but you will get through it.The relationship though will never be good if you can`t trust the guy. Are narcissist evil people, you ask. I often ask my self that question. I don`t regard my self as evil, but I certainly has done a lot of people harm I have come to realize that when I have hurt someone it has been because of my own anxiety of getting hurt and sometimes because of a great selfishness. (I believe it has something to do with this narcissistic rage which causes so much damage in our lives) About the false self, well I have not got this issue quite yet. I spend a lot of effort trying to find out when I my self are under the influence of the false self and when not. You see from what I have read we are talking about a two year old child who has stopped develloping emotionally and therefrom another self has emerged. I am sad to say that I cannat offer you better prospects regarding your relationships realizing how devoted you are. I will also repeat that it is only my point of view. This will do for to night. Have a nice evening. |
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MissM
Joined: Aug 31, '09
Status: New User |
2009-09-07 02:52:06 |
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yes we are the only ones here for now. If i'm sapping your energy with this, please tell me. He recounted his mum's death in some detail, more how the day was 'bizarre' in terms of evens. I could relate to this but when i told him i couldnt cry to keep my family strong he said he didn't cry at all, he couldnt see the point. I don't think he ever had feelings for me. His ignoring me, treating me with contempt and mild amusement in the one and only txt conversation since i last saw him are too cold and callous for me to even comprehend. I was a disposable commodity. He never really wanted to kiss either, or ever cuddle. It was the fun and warmth of best friends and lovers, but I felt his reluctance to show it in any way apart from sex. Where he liked to be in control. He hasnt replied to my mistaken txt. I was hoping my follow up txt saying it was me and 'how arf you' would have made him feel unthreatened enough to respond. I think he has discarded me tho. I don't even register with him. If i try speak to him i'm scared he will be nasty all over again. And I couldnt bear that. So if he is manipulating me, is it just to make sure i stay away ane 'killed'. You believe u are a true narcissist but u show more compassion than he would ever be capable of. He hates that i showed him my vulnerability, my hurt and my fears. He has punished me for it. I shnuld have heeded the warning signs, eg him calling all women mad and psycho including his ex's and even his own dead mother. Enough for now. Thank u for listening |
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Gypzi
Joined: Jul 3, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-07 10:57:50 |
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Hello from Denmark. Sorry I told you to have a nice evening. It is probly not evening in the states at the same time as in Denmark. Well sapping my energi? If we can agree that it is OK to say that one wants a break every once in a while it`s fine by me. I even look forward to your reply. Because of my own problems I am very interested in this matter. About me fealing compassion I have come to realize it depends on my level of stress. It is funny though, because I am very cabable of establishing close and deep relationships with girls (and I am defenately not a lesbian. I have been maried for 20 years and am the mother of 2 adult girls- But when it comes to primary relationships (with a male I certainly messes everything up. Gets servere anxiety attacks, which makes men very confused and eventually they vanish. I have found out that it is about projectively identification and fear from separation. Ofcourse there is also the matter of extreme low selfesteem. Soon after follows a great deal of shame and after beeing dumped I grow into a massive depression and sorrow. I don`t know whether you recognize any of this, but I am also diagnosed emotionel unstabel, but the experts disagre on that, so I am very confused. Beeing aware of my tendency of narcissism, I have taught my self to be very carefull not to hurt anyones fealings. From your describtion of the substance og your former relationship, I gather that you would only be even more misserable staying with him. (as I said earlier, he will mess up your brain). Narcissists are also said to have a way of spotting fragile people and abuse them in order to supply their own ego. I know for a fact that the only thing that can make a narcisist realize that there is something wrong with him/her is when exposed. (In Denmark we youse the expression: "caught with ones hand in the cookiejar". You see a narcissists blows up a huge bubble around him/herself (as big as possible)To do so, he needs the admiration from others. When exposed, the bubble bursts and one feels totally naked and exposed to the world in total shame and only at that partickular time it is possible for a narcissist to benefit from councelling and get better. So if you ever again get in contact with a narcissist, dont go along with his games. Expose him in stead and at the same time show him that you care. (that is if you actually do so). Well I`ll go see some television. I am to get up in about eight hours to go to work. By for now from Denmark |
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royals man
Joined: Sep 7, '09
Status: New User |
2009-09-07 23:20:15 |
| My wife has consitently lied to me over the last 9 months (we have been married 4 of those months) she has evidence of having a misacarriage but denies it and says it is fybroids. She has sat down and told me she has been doing escort work until making me physically ill, she has continued to put me down and berate me. when she wants something she is really nice but most of the time belittles me to the extent that it is cruel just not nasty but cruel. She claims I have been the one doing wrong and she is always right as well as this she uses statements which are all about her. Any ideas on this pattern of behaviour? | |
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Gypzi
Joined: Jul 3, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-08 03:41:08 |
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Hello Mr. Royal man. Sorry to read about your unhappy marriage. You have only written 8 lines, so one needs to know more. There is always more sides to a case/problem, but If what you describe is true, your wife is (in my point of view) a manipulating, shortsighted b----. There are things in your letter that I need to get explained. How does her escort work make you fysically ill? Do you love her? Because in my opinion she doesn`t deserve you. Do you know if she loves you? There must be something terrible wrong with her if she thinks it`s ok to work as an escortgirl while beeing married to. you. How can you know for sure that she has had a misccariage?. If so perhaps the child isn`t even yours.(I`m sorry to mention this, hurting as it probably does.) Well about her pattern one is tempted to utter that this is an acting out person, but to do so one needs much more information. She might just plainly be a b----. |
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kez
Joined: Sep 9, '09
Status: New User |
2009-09-09 13:27:36 |
| hmm. well, aparently i have high narcissism, but i've always been able to see problems with things before most people, like in my country a town is trying to ban gang patches for example. anyway - i also have a bottom rung mensa iq, and just won a tournament based on a type of intelligence this year. i guess what i am trying to ask is - if you are quite intelligent, and seem to have a bit more commonsense than the average bear, ... how do you know where the line is, between narcissism and just being more right about something, than most other people. Dang. I'm not good enough with words to get this question out there, am I. | |
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MissM
Joined: Aug 31, '09
Status: New User |
2009-09-09 14:14:31 |
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Hi Gypzi, hope you are well. It was interesting to hear what you said about exposing the narcissist, and only then would they feel some shame and maybe be able to recognise they need help. They also need attention and admiration and keep coming back for me. With my ex, it has not really been the case. So I have done more reading and asked more questions. The ultra-narcissist is the sociopath. Totally devoid of conscience, remorse, real feelings... but an expert at emulating them in order to lie and deceive. The moment their lies are uncovered, they lie some more to cover things up then vanish like they were never there in the first place. This seems to fit my ex. Unless he is just plain MEAN. It is his meanness I don't understand, it has never been justified - all I did was discover his lies, talk to him about it and left his place confused by his words which were ''look it will be ok'', ''I was wrong to keep in touch with her I know'' and ''i'll catch you soon''. Then he totally ignored me for a week, to suffer in silence. And when I sent him a very balanced, normal message to apologise (yet again, for looking in his phone) he was nasty, cold, callous, unfeeling. He just wanted to obliterate me. Never once have I been nasty, vengeful, spiteful - only calm, understanding and open to reconciliation. If he had ended this in a civilised, caring way I would feel sad, yes, but not the way I have felt for the past 8 weeks. I'm almost scared of him. Of what he might say next or the way he wants to make me feel so bad. And worse, how he chose to completely obliterate me. I don't know if your interest in the subject has extended to sociopathy/ultra-narcissism? Have you ever been unjustifiably mean to someone and never apologised at some point afterwards? |
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MissM
Joined: Aug 31, '09
Status: New User |
2009-09-09 14:15:21 |
| Sorry, I meant ''coming back for MORE'' in that second paragraph! | |
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Gypzi
Joined: Jul 3, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-10 10:19:46 |
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Answer to Kez. Well I think I understood your question and I thought a lot about it and I don’t know to too, but what I do know is this attitude saying/thinking: “oh those poor suds don’t know anything. I am the most clever and therefore I`m superior and I deserve more than others.” In my teens when everything was working for me, that was just about my attitude. I was charming everyone and got a lot of benefit from this. The teachers spoiled me, I dated the hottest boy in the class and so on. I sort of wrapped him in this image of me that I had created. I never cared much for those in my class who was not so clever. Then one day I said something very stupid about my boyfriend to one of his friends, but didn’t know that he was listening. He dumped me at the very minute and I broke down in my first depression and had never again been able create the same kind of successful life. I tell you this story in order to try to illustrate how true a narcissist feel. You see beneath it all was this feeling that I was superior and the rest of the world was put there just for me. I didn’t even feel any gratitude. When everything broke down for me for the first time, I felt a huge rage lying underneath that I couldn`t get what I thought I deserved. (the very best of everything). Though narcissists are often clever (at least the most wellfunktional ones I don’t think the fact that one is intelligent and aware of it too indicates that you are a narcissist. What especially separates a narcissists from others is that he thinks that the whole world is ment to supply him/her (and all the people living in it) and he/she doesn’t owe the world anything. Other people are just tools in his/hers hands. But when he is not admired by others, he feels this emptiness. This was my thoughts about your question. Love to hear your thoughts about my answer. |
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Gypzi
Joined: Jul 3, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-10 11:02:24 |
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Answer to MissM. I think what you write about your ex is right. To your question about whether my I take special interest in sociopath/ultra sociopath pathology. Well I have read about in order to find out whether I was a sheer sociopath (which I gratefully found out that I’m not) and in order to find out into what extend my narcissistic disorder was. From what I have read about ultra narcissist I have seen it explained as kind of malignant narcissism (but I believe though that we are talking about the same thing.) In a psykiatrybook I have seen an illustration of the evil deeds of malignant narcissists. (In the following I will try to explain the illustration since I am unable to show the drawing it self) You se it is like black and white. When the black is visible to the narcissist (the evilness), the white is invisible (the conscience) and visa versa. Therefore the narcissist is unable to understand his evil deeds. (The title of the book is “Dynamic Psychiatry” by Johan Cullberg (he is Swede). Hitler suffered from malignant narcissism and I believe his hatred against the Judes was one big projection. (Not that it makes any excuse for his terribly evil deeds though) I am not quite sure whether I agree with you in your statement that a narcissist is part sociopath. As I see it a sociopath are unable to feel any kind of compassion, the narcissist though suffer from kind of a disturbance in the register of feelings. You ask me if I have ever been unjustyfiengly mean to somebody without apologizing afterwards. I am sorry to say that I have done so and even several times. I am not proud of it and every incident haunts me every now and again. (When I have my darkest moments). Over the years though I have managed developing the ability of seeing when I have hurt someone and even to provide a genuine apollogee. As I stated earlier luckily I am able to feel compassion, but not when stressed or threatened. In my opinion it is a nasty and invalidating disorder which has terrible consequences to both those who carrie it and to their invironment. Onough of that. MissM. How far have you come in your consideration about taking some counselling? |
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MissM
Joined: Aug 31, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-10 15:09:07 |
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Hello Gypzi I have asked some questions about counselling, in fact I asked the hypnotherapist I saw some weeks ago for her opinion (she helped me with the anxiety attacks I was having because of this). In her opinion, I have acted more than healthily EXTERNALLY. In that I have not contacted him, begged, pleaded etc, all the things he was probably expecting. What I have done though is INTERNALISED everything so as not to show my hurt and emotion. This is where counselling would help me. I am emotionally stable in her opinion but my emotions are magnified because I try to contain them rather than release them. Probably through fear of rejection - which ironically, means I just get worse because of the relationships I choose. Let me ask you this. Here is a scenario for you, as if you were my ex. If you could give me your interpretation of this, it may help me a lot. So here is the scene (in abbreviated form): Imagine your boyfriend confesses to you (feeling very guilty) that he has looked in your phone and found texts from another guy who is obviously not just a friend. Lets assume for this situation, that this 'other guy' is not a serious relationship. So you explain to your boyfriend that it is not what he thinks, he has blown it out of proportion and that you should have told this other guy that you were with someone else. You don't even seem or act angry, in fact you say you are sorry for making him re-live an old hurt. You hold his hand, tell him how gorgeous he is, that everything will be ok, tell him it's not what he thinks. You ask if he is plotting his revenge in a half joking way. He can hardly speak, there is no crying or arguing. You tell him as he leaves, with a kiss, that it's not what he thinks and you'll catch him soon. No one has 'ended' the relationship at this point, but your boyfriend has assumed it is probably over. What do you do that same day when he texts to ask if he really did blow things out of proportion? (My ex didn't reply and ignored me for a week). A week later, your boyfriend texts again - something very normal and unthreatening, just trying to apologise again and to ask if you're ok. Do you call him names, tell him all men are mad, laugh at his feelings, belittle his emotions? Then completely cut him from your life? I am unbelievably confused by his actions and reactions. It is almost like the opposite of natural human behaviour - which scares me. To this day, over 2 months later, even my accidental text which I followed up with a casual ''hi its L, how are you'' he cannot even acknowledge. Are these the actions of a narcissist. I know I can't do or say anything else that will help the situation so I must leave it. For my own peace of mind, I would really like to understand. Knowledge is power and I really need to feel some of that... |
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kez
Joined: Sep 9, '09
Status: New User |
2009-09-12 03:31:24 |
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i did reply but it seemed to disappear so i will do it again. you are way off base gypzi, i did not infer anywhere that Those Poor Sods don't Know Anything, if you read into what i said more you will see i am doubting myself, even though i have been able to spot problems with new things before others have been able to, (not all others, just most others, i guess esp the politicians that are passing the laws) also in business i seem to be able to see business efficiency problems, maybe they could too if they stepped out of the situation i am really not sure. anyway if i thought like your first paragraph suggested, i would be quite depressed, i think everyone has slightly different talents in this world and think everyone is completely equal. well except for recidivists of violent crimes. i am also a socialist and think everyone should get about the same pay for the same effort. so is there anyone else to help us here? i will ask again - when you have quite a high iq and are good at problem spotting/solving, how do you work out where narcissism begins and some unique skills end? |
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Gypzi
Joined: Jul 3, '09
Status: Junior User |
2009-09-14 10:17:59 |
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To Kez. I dont know whether it is my english, which is to blame for this huge misunderstanding in our interaktion allthough I made a great effort to explain what I meant. I didn`t think that it was you, who had this attitude, which I was refering to, but what I was trying to explain was the typical way for a narcissist to think about himself when things goes in his/her way Beeing arrogant). I was not percepting you as such, which makes me doubt that you even are a true narcissist. I even started my letter saying that I too didn`know where the limit between sheer cleverness and narcissism goes allthough I dont thing that it is any limit that indicates whether one is a narcissist or not, but instead I think it is the attitude behinde the wid that does the difference. (Dont know if I make my self clear). |
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Unanswered Thread: OCD Bracelet Fund Raiser posted by vbaz 34 days ago |
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